This server has been one of the best I've been on, I know that
6:38 PM
But seriously, you can't just make a revolution a community will follow smoothly
6:39 PM
I suspect the best way is for the admins to enforce an ideology on the server
6:40 PM
To set clear stances on what is and isn't okay
6:40 PM
And founding a new one - I have already tried it (with Polish part of the community). It's hard to make it more appealing than the one already filled with people.
6:40 PM
Well, that's a place where nuking servers becomes useful xD
6:41 PM
But enforcing an ideology is not really a good think. You cannot just force people to follow your ideology and tell those who don't to get the f... off
6:42 PM
Why not?
6:43 PM
It makes people hostile. Not only those affected. Also their friends who don't want to choose between you or them.
6:43 PM
Societal pressure is the best way to get people to change
6:44 PM
An example is how it's socially unacceptable to be homophobic nowadays
6:44 PM
It is. But you can't just send homophobes to gas
6:44 PM
Aye, but you can shun them
6:45 PM
Don't need to gas people, just need to make them feel bad and unaccepted, and they'll change soon enough
6:45 PM
Yes, you can. If you are in position to do it. They can have influence too
6:46 PM
And it's seen in the world - there are places where homosexuals are discriminated because... people who have influence are assholes
6:46 PM
Indeed.
6:46 PM
It all depends on the people in charge.
6:46 PM
Unless you have people who can overthrow them, that is
6:47 PM
Also, having "metaphysical" views and being a homophobe are two different things. You can't say metas discriminate others
6:48 PM
And well, meta is not only problem... I think flattening it to "metaphysics" might be misleading.
6:48 PM
Hm? I'm not sure where meta comes into this, it wasn't mentioned before now
6:49 PM
From me I guess. I'm really surprised how meta is tolerated in English part of community
6:49 PM
We might see different problems in the community.
6:50 PM
Imo meta should really be stamped out but the mods in all the communities seem to have a soft spot for it(edited)
6:50 PM
For me it is mainly a lot of crap promoted in main site, guides, etc.
6:51 PM
Isn't the tulpa.info main site not even updated anymore? And all the guides are bloody old now
6:51 PM
Not only meta. Also things like "tulpa is developed at the beginning" or "tulpa can have paralell life in mindscape".
6:52 PM
We have seen people in #tulpa-questions still contract those beliefs. It's concerning.
6:53 PM
"tulpa is developed at the beginning" can happen, though
6:53 PM
The second point is largely disproven by now though, yes
6:53 PM
There are far too many instances of at least somewhat-developed tulpas just appearing out of nowhere for it to be completely fabrication.
6:54 PM
It can't be confabulated memories like with tulpas living in wonderland, either
6:54 PM
There has to be something behind it.
6:55 PM
As I said a few times today, walk-in do happen. It happened to me too. But showing signs of independent agency (you experience a character talking to you and you don't controlling it) doesn't really prove it's independience/development.
It is my opinion that if people like something it is for good reason, even if I believe they are wrong or mislead. People do things for more than logical reasons, and often their desire to act the way they do is what you need to pay attention to, rather than attempting again and again to prove their worldview is wrong on a factual level.
It's hard to distinguish a young tulpa from our imagination. We believe we can develop tulpas to become something like alternate identity, not only imaginary companion. But tulpa who just speak to you is not on that level. Imaginary friends of children, fictional characters of writers, they also talk.
Honestly I don't know how to tell the difference. I don't think it's that big of an issue, anyway
7:21 PM
Whether or not walk-ins exist and the level to which young tulpas are sentient is not exactly the biggest issue in the community currently
7:22 PM
There are two main things that come to mind when I think of advancing the community: Unfucking its image, and a total terminology redesign
7:23 PM
All the terms we use for stuff (switching, possession, forcing) are outdated and shitty and people whine about them being bad constantly. This is also the only thing that would actually be a relatively easy - if slow - fix
7:23 PM
It wouldn't even require the whole community to get together to fix this
7:23 PM
I'm pretty sure that if one site started enforcing the use of different terms, it would slowly spread to all the other ones, because everyone wants this, just no one has done it yet
Possession is too meta-leaning, people get twitchy over how "forcing" sounds bad, and switching is a bit vague, though easily the most okay of the three
7:24 PM
Even if they're okay, we could do a lot better.
7:24 PM
On tulpa chat, there were so, so fucking many arguments about what those words actually meant
to be possessed is to have someone or something controlling you. To "force" something to happen is broadly what you're doing when you force. To switch is to swap places with one's tulpa.
"to be possessed is to have someone or something controlling you." Sounds like metaphysics, sounds bad
"To "force" something to happen is broadly what you're doing when you force." Again, sounds bad, also it's a lot more gentle than that imo
"To switch is to swap places with one's tulpa." This is far too vague. A person from outside of the community could interpret this as you teleporting out of existence into your wonderland while your body swaps position with your tulpa's, which is not what happens. Inside of the community, people argue over whether or not it's switching if the host is still conscious, the difference between switching and full-body possession, etc
7:27 PM
I think peolpe were confused with what is switching in the past. It was a common belief that host can experience living in the mindscape while tulpa is controlling
I honestly don't see the problem. Possession is a common word used all over the place, it's in pop culture, I wouldn't really call it metaphysical.
Forcing, when I hear it, sounds like "putting forth effort to make something happen". You force a program to run, you force your tulpa to exist.
Switching is largely only a vague term because people started using it to describe full body possession, and I think that happened purely because switching is in the realm of impossibility or near impossibility for most people. The "easier path" was taken.
I don't think nobody has objected, but I do think their objections are unfounded
7:32 PM
unless we create totally new words for everything, which will sound even sillier than what we have now, we've got about the best we can have with the words we use
7:32 PM
Maybe we could say "creating" instead of "forcing"?
I don't take offense to "mancy" either, it's a very out there sort of practice and we are doing weird crazy ritualistic stuff, I think mancy fits perfectly fine
I know 49/50 people in the tulpa community are social rejects, but that doesn't mean we have to just accept being a joke and do nothing to try and justify ourselves
(edited)
